calliopes_pen | Torchwood: Children of Earth--episodes 1-5

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Torchwood: Children of Earth--episodes 1-5

Yesterday, I managed to get hold of episode 5 of Children of Earth a bit earlier than usual, so I was able to watch it yesterday evening, rather than this morning. Without any spoilers for any of the episodes and being as vague as I can possibly be, I will say that that was one of the most heart wrenching, dark, and vicious endings that RTD could have come up with.

On the other side of things, like someone else on my friends list, though, I have to wonder…what happened to the SUV?

Is Myfanwy of stealing sheep near Wales and wondering where her supply of chocolate went, or is she dead? I assume Janet, any Weevils, and anyone stored in the freezer (Grey, Suzie) would be dead, at the very least. I don’t know if she was in the Hub when it blew up in part 1. Did anybody see Andy after he got a nightstick pressed against his neck in part 5? I lost track of him.

And I really have to say this--I liked the Master as Prime Minister more than the guy they had there. At least he was honest about being a monster--after the Archangel Network was set up, at least.

And is it just me, or was Joss usually better about his dark endings not being as horrific? Not quite as vicious (well, except with the Reavers and the Operative) with a vague dash of hope—like at the end of Buffy (season 7, as I don’t read the comics) and Serenity?

Also, I really must commend my friends list for being so great at using LJ cuts. I wasn’t even spoiled once in the hours before I could get a download. If they actually manage to get a season 4 of Torchwood, I might try it for a few episodes—even if everyone’s dead, apparently.

I needed a dose of something lighter after that--I watched Fright Night on On Demand, and Dad and I mocked it. I followed that with watching Ghostbusters II on AMC.

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RTD is no Joss and he never will be. I think that Joss always has a way of giving you that hope. You always think that something will be good again. Joss too has taken characters away from his work. With each one, there was a reason behind it. He wants the viewer to remember that it's not all fluffy or cuddly and what they do is dangerous. He didn't want people to forget that.

We all have to remember, I think, that yes, losing someone you love is harsh, but you do have to move on. The one thing that really upsets me about this is where was the outcry over Tosh and Owen? The fandom didn't explode as badly when they were gone. And that upsets me.

I think that Joss always has a way of giving you that hope. You always think that something will be good again.

Exactly. And, also with Joss--he allows the characters to be happy at a certain point--as you said, there's some hope there. Willow and Tara's relationship for example--it had its problems, and wasn't all happiness, but at least they were happy at certain points.

The one thing that really upsets me about this is where was the outcry over Tosh and Owen? The fandom didn't explode as badly when they were gone. And that upsets me.

Yeah, I know. I never saw a huge explosion over Owen--there was only a teeny tiny bit of upset over Tosh, from what I remember.

Hmm, I feel that RTD is more honest about his dark endings. I still hate Joss for the ending of Chosen, because he not only kept the core four alive, but made them so unlikeable with their joking over Spike and Anya's grave that I still haven't been able to forgive any of the scoobs.

At least with RTD when he says anyone could die, he means anyone (well except Jack, but you know....) and not just, anyone except for the four chars who mean most to himself.

See, I don't see the hope with Joss. Esp. after Chosen. He basically made it so that Spike won the battle, but the First won the war, by making the scoobies into monsters.

I feel RTD is a much stronger writer than Joss is, because RTD focusses on characters, even when he's killing them, where Joss focusses more on setting up images. RTD builds relationships because he thinks the relationships are interesting, Joss, just uses relationship to support the plot, not caring about the actual relationship itself or the characters in it.

When RTD gives you hope it feels real, when Joss does so, it feels all too often like a fake gloss that scratches off within a second and shows plastic underneath.

I thought the SUV was going to wind up found and being part of the key to saving everyone--there was a lot of tech in that thing. But, no, it's just lost. As was everyone in the cells. As for Myfanwy, I hope she go clear since she's by the ceiling anyway. I don't think they showed Andy after he was pressed into the street.

The one thing that really upsets me about this is where was the outcry over Tosh and Owen? The fandom didn't explode as badly when they were gone. And that upsets me.

I think because their endings were much more heroic than the one Ianto got? Personally, I felt Ianto got cheated. Like it was nice that he got to grand stand but... There was no pay off, you know?

I think it's also because, like you said, even with Joss, there was a sense of purpose for the story because above all things, for Joss, it was about the characters and the story and what it meant. So, the deaths that hit us hard in Buffy (Tara, Joyce, Buffy herself) there was something about it that drove the story. While I really did think CoE was an amazing piece of television - so much tighter and better than season 1 and 2 - I feel like Ianto's death didn't have the... weight that it should, you know? Other than being an additional reason for Jack to run away. However, something tells me that Steven would have been enough (along with Tosh and Owen and Suzie and all the other people for the last 150 years that he's dealt with) to drive Jack to run away.

Though, I do have to admit. When RTD wants to break you, he'll fucking crush you until there's just about nothing left. Maybe it's just so that he can build you back up again.

I think the SUV went boom with the Hub.

Oh, God. The Prime Minister. That whole cabinet, man. That whole discussion about who would be the children to send into the lottery? It just made my stomach flop.

Mostly because I went, "Of course they would do that" and know the sickening feeling that I'd be on that bus if I was one of those kids. -_-

Got to echo your feelings. I grew up on a sink estate and have experienced and seen genuine poverty, and that whole scene made me feel sick to the stomach. I think I'm reeling from that more than anything else that happened in CoE just because of how close to home it is. Far, far too close for comfort...absolutely amazing writing but so disturbing on a personal level I doubt I'll be able to watch those scenes again.

Oh, I agree. Completely. It just left such a bad taste in my mouth because the worst part is people totally talk like that even without the threat of aliens wiping out the human race.

I think there really can be a thing as too much realism, sometimes. While I think it was extremely brave to include scenes like that and think they were amazingly written and acted...it's not the sort of thing I like to be confronted with in something I turn to for escapism. I love dark, twisted fiction but CoE went beyond "just" fiction for me. Parts of it felt so deeply personal it's probably not going to be a piece of Canon I will turn to when I want a fix.

And even on a mere fanon level it's disturbing as hell when you think of characters like Rose and Mickey and Owen as children, and you know would've been included in that percentage of kids giving to the 456. :(

God. It's so much harder when some of the scariest monsters on television are not aliens.

Parts of it felt so deeply personal it's probably not going to be a piece of Canon I will turn to when I want a fix.

I'm no sure I would have been chosen for the US contingent, but possibly. Heck, they could get their 2mil from the South, and probably would. I think the thing that got to me was the glee in some people's faces for being saved and sending innocent children to death without questioning anything beforehand. For peddling in 1965 and in 2009, like it was no big deal. Just a couple children, you know. Yhe doctor who was in charge, the one that was urging Jack's actions. That creepy smile never left his face.

I love dark fiction. I've written it before. But - and let me be clear here - that's a difference in writing realistic fiction and shoving all your personal issues into 5 hours. Joss did the same thing with parents and no happy endings. It's one thing to acknowledge life is difficult and messy. It's another to almost revel in the utter destruction of people's faith system (be it spiritual or societal). I was physically ill watching the last hour because at some point I felt like it fell to the latter. And that's a scary prospect for me. I may not have a lot of belief in the human race but even I look for that single spark that makes it better.

I don't understand why he didn't use the people he had available. I don't understand why he didn't call upon those he's met through and since the Doctor for help. It didn't feel like Jack because there was no charm. No sense of relief. Just relentless breaking to make him Boe in 5 million years. It felt like I was watching RTD's personal views being hammered down my throat. And I'm sorry, but my world isn't that bleak. I don't see the point in destroying everything because you can't bring it back to the way it was. It wasn't edgy or hip...it was desperation and a large screw you to the world at large.

That's when you step back and consider which is more important: a soap box or allowing you characters to be individual and 3-D. For me, Jack felt like the Doctor 2.0. The "must be isolated" and "must be soul-weary." But then they stripped everything that made him Jack for no reason in order to say "the government sucks, don't trust it, but vigilant." I wonder if RTD read Mad-Eye's warnings a little too often.

All that made me lose was faith in RTD. And I wasn't running on a lot beforehand.

I haven't even seen the series yet but I spoiled myself. I imagine that I will be gutted on the same scale as I was when I read Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, especially the Tonks bits not because she died but because it just didn't make any sense.

That was not Jack. There is no way that I will believe that Cap'n Jack would sacrifice his own flesh and blood to save the world. I could buy him using a child but using his grandson was the ultimate act of betrayal and for me, there's no redemption for that. This is the same Jack that was compassionate enough to get the rift stolen people into a better facility and not just cells? The same Jack that would do anything for his team? That same Jack that died giving Nine a few more moments to get the job done? I just can't buy it.

And if that was the only way, why didn't he do it first?

I really don't know if I'm going to be able to watch episodes four and five.

I was when I read Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, especially the Tonks bits not because she died but because it just didn't make any sense.

I never got that far in series (HBP kinda made WTF and stop 1/3rd in) but I can definitely understand. It's the arbitrary "someone must die!" claptrap. I just doesn't make a lot of sense. If you have to completely a) have a different character on two different shows with the same name and b) change a major part of a character to fit the plot...it's time to rework it to stay true the character traits you'd envisioned before a possible ending. A character should evolve in moments of crisis. Not devolve with such spectacular results.

I think Gwen and Rhys starting a family was supposed to be the ray of hope at the end. I was definitely feeling depressed after the show ended though.

Edited 2009-07-12 05:22 (UTC)

I stop Tonks' personal canon after book five. I do ship Remus/Tonks but the way JK did it just sucks and she ruined the character. Book Seven should have been called Harry Potter and the Plot Holes.

It's always annoyed me that with the exception of Martha's first appearance on Torchwood, Captain Jack behaves very differently on both of the shows. I like DW Jack. TW Jack, he's okay, but I don't feel like he's the real one.

I don't mind Ianto's death but if Jack could bring him back to life in Cyberwoman, why didn't he do it again?

Book Seven should have been called Harry Potter and the Plot Holes.

You know, I felt the same way with book six. Like, "Shouldn't an editor pointed out that your characters turned on their nose in the few summer months?" Glad to know that didn't change with Seven.

Jack seems to be like two different characters. It's weird. Like DW!Jack is completely happy-go-lucky, fly by the seat of his pants and TW!Jack feels a bit like a tool for punishing the government.

Well, to be fair about the Cyberwoman deal...it was probably blown up. But there had to be nifty tech on hand from one of them that had been "borrowed." I mean, come on. It just felt like Ianto and other character's death was lazy writing. Jack's never struck me as completely devoid of emotion, even when camouflaging the broken part of him.

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Torchwood: Children of Earth--episodes 1-5

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